Carry Guard Surrenders.

In response to clear feedback surrounding the NRA Carry Guard Level I course announcement, we have modified the required firearm platforms as well as our site language to clearly articulate how firearms will be used in the class.

Bottom line: our decision to not include 1911s and revolvers as primary firearms in our initial Level I course was a mistake, and we appreciate the feedback we have received from the firearms community.

Not a good start, guys, not a good start. However, I think I found the reason why they initially banned 1911’s and revolvers: The suggested round count for their two three day class is… 1,500 rounds.

Yep.

Now if you’re shooting an 8 round 1911 or a 6 round wheelgun, that is gonna suck. You’ll be reloading 2-3 times more often than your friends who are shooting Glock 17’s, and you’ll probably be slowing down the class somewhat.

Reloads aside, shooting one thousand five hundred rounds, in a two three day class for beginners? I can *almost* see that for a pure shooting class like the Vogel class I did a couple of years ago, but 1500 rounds for a two three day beginner’s class that teaches, and I’m quoting here…

“Safety and Weapons Awareness; Pistol Ready Positions; Fundamentals (stance, grip, holster draw, sight alignment, trigger press, recoil management, follow through, economy of motion, self-critique); Treating a Malfunction; Live Fire Progression Drills; Combat and Tactical Reloads; Drawing from a Holster; Low Light/No Light Shooting; Combat Reload while holding a Light; Key Components to Carrying a Concealed Weapon; Carry Location Options (i.e. waist, ankle, purse, etc.); Real World Scenario Based Training (Airsoft scenarios)”

You’re teaching all that, and you also want your beginning students to shoot 1500 rounds in two three days?

Good luck with that.

UPDATE: I got the number of days wrong. It’s a three day class, not a two day class. However, 1500 rounds is still an awfully large amount of ammo to send down-range in that amount of time. The chances of you doing that and teaching your students anything beyond what gunfire sounds like is mighty slim. Heck, to teach the “Low Light/No Light Shooting; Combat Reload while holding a Light” and maintain even a basic level of safety is at least a couple of hours of non-shooting time.

This Post Has 10 Comments

  1. I was wondering about that. I suspected that what they *meant* to say was that they had a minimum round count per magazine. Because even Glock has the G42 and G43.

    I considered showing up at a class with my Rock Island Hi-Cap and dare them to boot me out.

    They would have been better off just listing a minimum round count per magazine and a minimum number of magazines along with a minimum caliber, just like every other serious shooting class out there.

    But then they wouldn’t be the NRA.

    “We’re the NRA. We don’t do what others do. Even if it’s smart.”

    1. There is no need to require a minimum capacity for mags. A minimum TOTAL amount contained in mags might, maybe, make sense. Smaller mags just gives you more practice in reloading your gun, both slide-lock, and partial.

      However, 1500 rounds in THREE DAYS indicates this class is oriented toward shooters who have prior experience. In no way would newbie’s be appropriate for this format. Just because someone has accquired a CCW permit would not automatically qualify them to attempt this class. Expect lots of disgruntled students, along with some injuries, to accumulate.
      I’m not impressed with the NRA doing this. Expect more egg on their face, people. Sigh.

      1. Depends on the class. I shot a 2 day CFS class with my Shield, and I shot a two day MAG20 range class with it too. Even though I had 3 mags on my belt and one in the gun, shooting CFS, with it’s emphasis on high round count per evolution, sucked. MAG40, though, which is revolver-friendly, was a breeze.

  2. I whined about it in the “carry guard, not carry on”-article and I will do it again: The NRA is missing a very important opportunity. They way they are doing this is simply not how you train someone for CCW.

    It is, however, a nice vehicle to set up some of their ex-SEAL instructor friends with a very distinctive program of their own. Not sure whether they see the long-term disadvantages of that approach.

    1. I have absolutely zero insider knowledge of what actually happened, but I suspect the development of this program had little to do with anything already existing inside NRA Training.

  3. How much does this course cost? How much does 1500 rounds of ammo cost(assuming isn’t included)? Will these courses be local, or will attendees need a hotel for 2-4 nights, and how much does that cost? And food?
    What should a student expect to pay, all together? Who can afford this as a _beginning_ CCW holder?

    1. 850 bucks, and it’s a travelling goat rodeo, um, I mean road show, so plan on it showing up on your doorstep real soon!

      For $800, I can do a four day MAG40 with Mas, and a two day class with Tom Givens is only $475.

      I know where I’d rather spend my money.

  4. Hey Kevin, your update is rather interesting: “[…]teach the “Low Light/No Light Shooting; Combat Reload while holding a Light[…]”.

    I am pretty sure we agree that shooting 500 rounds per day is not a good idea for a CCW course, because it does not sit well with realistic CCW guns and their limited capacities.

    But we’d disagree about the value of shooting with a light. I used to be a proponent of that like I assume you are, but I changed my opinion after 6 days with Tom Givens without ever using a light. I wondered about that so I asked. To paraphrase him “Shootings occur often during the hours of low light, but rarely at low light”. Blew my mind. It does make a lot of sense, so I trust Tom’s statistics on that one.

    I still practice it, because I am an enthusiast and I like to exceed minimum training by quite a bit, but I’d argue that there is more important stuff to do in a compact 3 day class.

    We can disagree about that, but I still like to point it out to illustrate that…
    a) it is going to be hard to find common ground on a topic like this
    b) this the NRA is currently busy correcting stuff that was obvious, while they would have enough work figuring the complex stuff like (a)

    1. We’re not in disagreement here. I’ve trained at night as well, and I’ve come around to Tom’s thinking about low light situations. I’m not saying it’s a good idea for Carry Guard to train at night, I’m saying it’s there on the curriculum, and they want to teach it to armed citizens.

      There’s a training company out on the other side of Florida that is chock full of operator types, just like Carry Guard, and they sorta specialize in teaching we civvies how to shoot at night. That’s cool and all, but their experience fighting at night as soldiers overseas and my experience navigating a Wal-Mart parking lot at 10pm are two very, very different things.

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